Greek National Issues in Washington and the «War of Interests»

January 21, 2012 | Filed under: Geopolitics

U.S. Newspaper “Washington Post” refers to a “war of interests” in the U.S. Capital, recording several long-term conflicts and problems, such as the case of Cyprus, the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Armenian community’s persecution within Turkey.

The article also presents the views of representatives from organizations dealing with Hellenic issues, but also experts on ethnic conflict issues, such as Fred Turner, Deputy Chief of Staff for the Independent U.S. Helsinki Commission, who refers to Turkish – Cypriot acts to present the occupied regions of Cyprus, the “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus” (TRNC) as they call it, as an independent country.

According to Mr. Turner, the TRNC has an office at K Street in Washington, and those who stay there consider Turkish Cyprus an independent country, even though the U.S. Government does not recognize the region as an independent country, noting at the same time that “it’s known to the rest of the region as occupied Northern Cyprus, separated since Turkish troops invaded in 1974”.

Mr. Turner also notes that when the Helsinki Commission recently held a hearing on the destruction of religious properties in occupied Cyprus, representatives of the Turkish embassy were “upset” and “asked that the hearing’s name be changed”, adding that “the commission invited the Turkish Government to participate, but it declined”.

Nick Laryngakis, President of the American Hellenic Institute, which promotes U.S. relations with Greece and Cyprus, “and is often at odds with Turkey’s goals”, stated; “our arsenal is not weapons” and “it’s having a voice in Washington where we can use the rule of law to provide credibility to our arguments”.

Mike Manatos, who along with his father Andy Manatos, are running one of “Washington’s most powerful lobbyist firms”, stated that Turkey was denying religious freedom to Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, head of the Greek Orthodox minority in Istanbul, and spiritual leader of all Orthodox Christians, “but steady lobbying by the Greek community here to recent administrations helped pressure Turkey to improve religious freedoms there”. He added that “Washington is far and away the most effective place if you want your issues addressed”.

Source: greekreporter.com

No related news.

  • Phoevos

    The Greek-American US lobby is completely ineffective. Most of these guys are of low intelligence and far less competence. They couldn’t spell Greek interests, let alone promote them.

    Thank God for the Israeli lobby which is a really professional organization.

    Most Greek Americans as so much removed from Greece’s national interests that they are basically an embarrassment to their heritage.

    • Eric R.

      Phoevos,

      In your support of Israel and Jews, you fall into the trap of thinking that the “Israel lobby” somehow manages to change American opinion in a way that it would not go if it were not for some Jewish influence.

      This is not the case. Americans are instinctively (or about 65% are) pro-Israel, because Americans are more religious, more belong to Protestant denominations which place great emphasis on the Old Testament, because Americans respect an underdog that fights back, and because we were attacked on 9/11.

      And please don’t tell me the Greek lobby was ineffective. They got an arms embargo placed on Turkey for quite a number of years. The “Israel lobby” never got an arms embargo placed on Arab states.

      Please look up on Wikipedia regarding Greek Americans. Their success and influence, like those of Jews, has been well out of proportion to their size of the population.

      We have had a Greek-American Vice President (Agnew), but none that were Jewish.

      We have had a Greek-American as a major party nominee for the Presidency (Dukakis). We have not had a Jew in that position.

      So please, stop buying into the rhetoric of the European anti-Semites and this “Israel lobby” crap. The bottom line is that if Americans in general did not support Israel, all the “Israel lobbying” would not make a difference.

      • Phoevos

        True. But Jewish people stand shoulder to shoulder. Greeks are individualists and could hardly ban together. That’s the big difference.

        BTW, most of the Greek Americans you know as success stories are low intellect people. They like to wear their success on their sleeves and as such become very un_Greek. To show off wealth or to strive for wealth is the most unGreek thing a person can do.

        Neither Socrates, Plato, Aristotle nor Heraclitus of Ephesus will ever define a wealthy person as worth emulating. This is not where happiness is. The essence of a fulfilled life centers around friendships and needing as little as possible (ask Epicurous or the Spartans about it).

        • Eric R.

          “But Jewish people stand shoulder to shoulder.”

          No we don’t Phoevos, unfortunately. Most American Jews are leftist first, and Jewish second. (It is the religious Jews who vote Republican; I am a rather rare Jew – nonobservant and Republican). They vote 70-75% for Democrats, even though most of the anti-Semitism and anti-Israel sentiment in America is on the left, in the Democratic Party, much of it actually expressed by left wing Jews at places like the NY Times.

          There is actually a growing gap between American Jews and Israeli Jews; Israel’s strongest support in America comes from the right, which does NOT have a lot of Jews.

          • Phoevos

            Eric: I hear you but that’s the way to play the game. The Jewish vote should be divided in American politics because the objective is to get maximize value. To me ideology is a pure substitute for pragmatic politics.

            To get what you want as a voting block, the first message you need to flash is “Hey, I am uncommitted so you are gonna have to work hard to get my vote”.

            To paraphrase, in pragmatic politics “Divided we stand and united we fall” seems to be the appropriate motto.

            BTW, where does the mormon stand on Jewish issues?

          • Eric R.

            Phoevos,

            At 70-75%, Jews are not really up for grabs. Even Hispanics do not vote in as high a percentage for Democrats as Jews do.

            What the Republicans should do is work on courting the Orthodox and Hasidic Jews. Because the Orthodox and Hasidim do not marry outside the faith, and because they have more children, they will make up a growing percentage of American Jews in the future.

          • Phoevos

            Eric: Got it. But the Republicans must evolve too if they are to be suitable to Jewish interests which might be shifting.

            Also keep on eye on the big picture. Israel might become more of a European player than USally in the future. For two main reasons:

            1. The O&G discovery might allow the US to gradually disengage as Israel becomes more of an EU energy gatekeeper and energy provider.

            2. Given Israel’s advanced GDP stage, Israel is a shoe-in for EU enlargement. Now free movement might be a problem but we are talking 10 years down the road.

            What I am trying to say is that Israel might find itself in transition from the US sphere of influence into more of a strategic EU partner. Granted ,US will always be there for you but you get the picture.

            p.S. I saw Gingrich won South Carolina. Would he be able to make it in Florida?

          • Eric R.

            Phoevos,

            Israel will not join the EU. The European Union does not want it because of its anti-Semitism; and Israel does not want it because of the EU’s anti-Semitism. Sure, they will trade with Europe, but the fact is that Israel sees the future of the world lies in Asia. Yes, Israel will use natural gas to create close ties with Greece and the Balkans. But her technology sector deal with the USA, India, China, Korea and Japan. Not so much with Europe. Believe me, I have relatives in Israel who do engineering work, and they tell me this.

          • Canavar

            Phoevos, Gingrich has baggage. But at least he won’t hug Erdogan like Obama did. Obama is the most pro-Muslim President in memory. One of the Hurriyet columnists recently exulted “this is the ‘golden age’ of US-Turkey relations”. Well, if Newt gets elected the Turks will fine that this “gold” is fools gold.

          • Phoevos

            Canavar, Gingrich has baggage but he is a formidable debater. Romney will not be a good match for Obama. Both, Romney and Obama are the elite products of Harvard et al. So as far as elites go, Obama stands a bit taller. I don’t think Romney has any political charisma except some management skills. If the Republicans elect Romney, Obama will eat him for breakfast. IMHO.

          • Stelio_

            Dr. Ron Paul is what the country needs (IMO). Ask yourself, why the media attempt to ruin him?

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_Lw-4Znp9AY

        • Leonidas

          Bravo, Shoulder to Shoulder, Greeks of the Diaspora and Greeks in Greece, Whats going on Phoevos? , I have been following your posts for a long time and I have enjoyed and supported your views. But today you are attacking and insulting a Greek brother in a disgusting manner,?????????

          • Phoevos

            Leonidas – I think it’s well deserved. I find the Greek diaspora disoriented, unfocused and self-serving. Instead of taking time to understand the core issues of the Motherland they tend to be patronizing, pretentious and ignoramuses.

            We certainly need to have a table discussion with these folks and give them religion on a few issues. Since the crisis errupted in Greece, the expats tended to disassociate themselves playing the role of them as prudent and economical. I find in most of my discussions with them that they are deeply naive, ignorant and unsophisticated in geostrategic matters. I am sure there is “filotimo” in them but it’s quite dormant. Do you have a different opinion?

          • Leonidas

            Unfortunately I have to agree , speaking only of my community in South Africa, some of my fellow Greek brothers are patronizing and sometimes quiet derogatory of the situation in Greece, and I find myself often having to defend and correct them in discussions. More than often their arguments are formed and informed by the local and international press. On the other side of the coin there are some solid palikaria, that love Greece no matter what.
            So while I understand your point of view, lets keep the hard language for the enemy and not for our Greek Brothers.
            I have also followed Paul’s posts over the last few months and he is 100% Elinas, in my opinion.
            On another note, I hope that the alliance with Israel grows and strengthens for mutual benefit.

          • Phoevos

            Leonidas – I beg your forgiveness. I didn’t mean to offend. That was a call to action, perhaps a clumsy one.

            Greetings to South Africa and the Greek community there.!!!

            P.S. You were right to call me on the floor. But I have a plan too.

          • Leonidas

            I’m with you my brother, all the way.

      • Canavar

        Agree completely. The antisemites and Muslims who claim that America is only pro-Israel because of some mythical “Jewish influence (lobbies, billionaires, etc.)” are full of crap. Eric R.’s identification of the real factors that make us pro-Israel are on target. The “Israel controls the US gang” conveniently forget that the US is a vibrant democracy, and its people soon fire any politician whose views radically contradict theirs. For example, a typical “red” (ultraconservative) state like Utah has a 0.1% Jewish population, making the notion of Jewish “control” of Utah a joke. Yet both of Utah’s senators and all of its Congressmen are staunchly pro-Israel,. Their constituents must agree. The antisemites counter by claiming that the insidious Jewish media has “brainwashed” the American people. Antisemites, most of the 300 million US citizens are not idiots.

    • Paul

      Wow, you really think so? I’m 2nd generation Greek American, and was raised to be proud of my roots, like most Americans of Greek descent. I’ve always had a very strong interest in Greece and Greek affairs, and I find your comment incredibly ignorant and offensive, not only to myself, but to the many Greek Americans who feel the same way I do, and have always come to Greece’s defense, as have most Diaspora Greeks, especially during these past few years of the Greek financial crisis. I also find your comment about “being so much removed from Greece’s national interest” highly ironic, in that it aptly describes the past several decades of inept and corrupt Greek political leadership, as well as the Greek talent for chronic tax evasion. Talk about an embarrassment to our heritage!

    • Paul

      Wow, you really think so? I’m 2nd generation Greek American, and was raised to be proud of my roots, like most Americans of Greek descent. I’ve always had a very strong interest in Greece and Greek affairs, and I find your comment incredibly ignorant and offensive, not only to myself, but to the many Greek Americans who feel the same way I do, and have always come to Greece’s defense, as have most Diaspora Greeks, especially during these past few years of the Greek financial crisis. I also find your comment about “being so much removed from Greece’s national interest” highly ironic, in that it aptly describes the past several decades of inept and corrupt Greek political leadership, as well as the Greek talent for chronic tax evasion. Talk about an embarrassment to our heritage!

    • Paul

      Wow, you really think so? I’m 2nd generation Greek American, and was raised to be proud of my roots, like most Americans of Greek descent. I’ve always had a very strong interest in Greece and Greek affairs, and I find your comment incredibly ignorant and offensive, not only to myself, but to the many Greek Americans who feel the same way I do, and have always come to Greece’s defense, as have most Diaspora Greeks, especially during these past few years of the Greek financial crisis. I also find your comment about “being so much removed from Greece’s national interest” highly ironic, in that it aptly describes the past several decades of inept and corrupt Greek political leadership, as well as the Greek talent for chronic tax evasion. Talk about an embarrassment to our heritage!

      • Stelio_

        Oreo, re.

    • Paul

      Wow, you really think so? I’m 2nd generation Greek American, and was raised to be proud of my roots, like most Americans of Greek descent. I’ve always had a very strong interest in Greece and Greek affairs, and I find your comment incredibly ignorant and offensive, not only to myself, but to the many Greek Americans who feel the same way I do, and have always come to Greece’s defense, as have most Diaspora Greeks, especially during these past few years of the Greek financial crisis. I also find your comment about “being so much removed from Greece’s national interest” highly ironic, in that it aptly describes the past several decades of inept and corrupt Greek political leadership, as well as the Greek talent for chronic tax evasion. Talk about an embarrassment to our heritage!

      • Phoevos

        Really? Care to name your leadership and what specifically you have done for Greece? Name just one thing that your 1st,2nd,3rd generations have done for the mother country. Something noteworthy, practical and of value other than empty words, general contempt for genuine Greek values and a deep inferiority complex that drives you primarily to blend in and try to show off your “success” lest your other Americans think that you the same “contaminated bunch” as the Greeks of the mainland. Don’t get me started because you will regret it.

        Greek Americans my ass. You guys are a complete and utter embarrassment to anything Greek. Your production rate for Greece is subzero.

        • Paul

          “A compete and utter embarrassment to anything Greek”? Look in the mirror my friend. “Contempt for Greek values?” Which values, precisely? The value of hating others who don’t share the same opinions as you? That’s a pretty big chip on your shoulder you’re carrying. Your arrogant and insulting response only belies your ignorance and apparent misery. You obviously know nothing about what generations of Greek Americans have contributed to both the US or Greece, how they strove and sacrificed to make a better life for their children in America, how they have succeeded in every walk of life in this country, as Diaspora Greeks in many other countries have as well. That’s a Greek value called philotimo, and every Greek American I know has it. And what of the Greeks in Greece? What have they contributed to their own country to make it better? Strike after crippling strike? What is the production rate for Greeks for their own country? I can only imagine that your hateful response is due to a deep inferiority complex that is all your own; I wish you good luck with your serious vindictiveness for all things Greek-American; for myself, I will continue to have nothing but love for Greece and my family that still lives there, even though I am a mere 2nd generation Greek-American.

          • Phoevos

            Paul: So, now you are going to lecture us, on top of it? Name any name from your Greek American community that contributed to Greece since the crisis errupted in 2009? One name.

            And where do you live? What part of the USA?

          • Eric R.

            As for me, a Jew, I partook today in an important part of Greek-American culture.

            I visited my elderly parents and we all went to eat – at a diner. A New Jersey diner.
            :-)

          • Phoevos

            God bless the Jewnited States of America ! :-)

            Good thing you already ate. You don’t want this creature spoiling your appetite:

            http://www.athensnews.gr/#3

          • Stelio_

            Well said Paul. Bravo re. Isai kalos :)

        • Stelio_

          I’m disappointed with these comments Phoevos.

          • Phoevos

            Stelio – you are also disappointed in your religious matters. Noted.

          • Stelio_

            That was a foolish comment my, friend. How so?

          • Phoevos

            Stelio – I don’t have time to baby sit people. Unless you have a Spartan warrior’s mentality, you don’t belong in this blog.

          • Stelio_

            :) Thank you.

            “Spartan Warrior Mentality”

            I wouldn’t know what it’s like. But since you were a Spartan Warrior, perhaps you can tell me how awesome it is.

            I thought we could discuss things here…I guess I don’t belong to this blog. See you on the next one?

          • Phoevos

            :-) For us Spartans the choices are:

            1. The afterlife.
            2. The Gates of Hades

    • Eric R.

      Phoevos,

      May I ask, in all seriousness, what you (and the people of Greece) would like Greek-Americans (and Greek-Canadians and Greek-Australians) to do?

      • Phoevos

        To eff off, would be a good start. Also, about the G-Americos: stop being such pretentious male hen suckers.

        But can you help me here? (r all Israeli presenters foxes?)

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce0nLHIvRGs

        • Eric R.

          Hey Phoevos,

          After looking at this link, you’ll be ready to convert:

          http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2011/12/the-50-hottest-jewish-women

          • Phoevos

            Eric R:

            You are a cruel man! I find not even one that I can reject :-) .

            Now, let’s get on with the practical side.

            Is gentile conversion a possibility and does it involve any cuttings? Can we possibly replace the cuttings with anything one can buy at a nice Jewish deli? :-)

          • Eric R.

            Yes, if you convert, you get clipped. Actually, in America, most men are circumcised anyway, so move to America and you won’t stand out.

          • Phoevos

            LOL. Eric. But that’s the whole thing. I want to be outstanding! I want to “stick out”, so to speak.

            We need to have some private Greek lessons on this matter :-) There are some definite rules in attracting ladies’ attention.

        • Dimitrios (London)

          Phoevos, you are not a nice person. You might be able to express yourself adequately, however, that does not make you a decent human being. I have read through your posts here and, to be honest, they reek. The fact that you brand all Diaspora Greeks in one brush-stroke as ignorant, exposes your own ignorance. Take a chill pill, read the sermon on the mount and stop insulting people.

          • Phoevos

            Dimitrios – true. I am all piss and vinegar. I am not here to make friends. I am here to protect my country.

            BTW, since you read this blog the assumption is that you ought to have thick skin as military men and women do. And just as in the military, it’s not about being nice rather being effective.

            I don’t know about your notion of effectiveness but mine is based on supreme traning, discipline, team work and superior tactics.

            An winning army does not choose people in random and without tranining asks them to bake cookies, drink tea and be nice to one another.

            For you to tell me to take a chill pill you need to be able to step into the arena with me and survive a few rounds. O.k. buddy?

          • Dimitrios (London)

            Damn it Phoevos – all I am saying is that with your comments you are alienating all immigrant Greeks. Further, I am sure that the average Greek in Greece is as intelligent as the average Greek abroad. You are plucky and sound determined, but bear in mind that being a bit more sensitive is not necessarily a weakness. If anything, a lot can be gained by diplomacy. We are talking about forum posts after all, not commando raids behind enemy lines! If Greece goes to war, be sure that most Diaspora Greeks will come home to defend the homeland. Save some enemies for me!

          • Phoevos

            Dimitrios – And all I am saying is this is a military forum.

            As to your comment of contribution, it is considered the highest art of skill in war to defeat your enemy without firing a shot.

            You can find it all here. All I am asking of you and your immigrant class is to put your face game on:

            http://suntzusaid.com/

            P.S. Click on each hyperling for details of defeating your enemy.

          • Dimitrios (London)

            I will check the link. Thanks.

            Please note that I do not belong to any class, so do not try to label me.

    • Tyroneez

      phoevos
      i cannot understand your confusion on this whole issue …

      firstly of all the greek lobby in the USA does an excellent job in lobbying for the just causes of greece and cyprus .vis-vis the illegal actions of turkey ..
      the reasons it HAS NOT HAD the desired result we would all have wished for , is because it does not coincide with AMERICAN INTERESTS IN THE REGION …
      so under the circumstances your conclusions are not only unfair but mistaken …
      secondly , again your mistaken assumption that USA backing for isreal is due to the jewish lobby …. its only because it coincides with american interests …
      just as ERIC has been trying to explain to you ..

      ill try and make it simple for you , so you can understand

      the USA would back ISREALI actions , even if there were no jews in america …
      just as they back TURKEY , even though there is no sizable turkish population lobbying internally in the USA ..

      you must understand that a greek or jewish lobby can only do so much towards influencing US foreign policy …especially if its against american interests …

      this is why blaming PRESIDENT OBAMA for americas pro turkish policy is so ridiculous , all american administrations have passivelly supported or shielded TURKEY … for all the reasons mentioned above …
      BUT NONE OF THEM HAVE GONE AS FAR AS RECOGNISING TURKEYS ILLIGAL ACTIONS IN CYPRUS OR THE AGEAN …AS TO DO SO WOULD BE REDICULOUS …
      THE SAME GOES FOR ISREALI ILLEGAL ACTIONS REGARDING THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES …
      a fact for which we must be glad ..
      now coming to the recent developments …
      if the USA is ever forced to choose between ISREALI or TURKISH interests then they will support ISREAL …
      TURKEY has only ever got the ANGLO/AMERICAN support it has … by playing the role of an INDESPENSABLE FREIND OF THE WEST in the moslem world … LIKEWISE PAKISTAN …
      however MR ERDOGAN’S recent behaviour has stepped out of that narrow path … and reveiled the true nature of TURKISH long term policy …
      the last thing the USA or BRITAIN or ISREAL will tolerate is an over armed billigerent and expansionist TURKEY ….overturning their SPHERES OF INFLUENCE and DESTABILISING the whole region …
      how turkey could have forgotten their place and got it so wrong … is difficult to explain ..
      but TURKEYS POSITION WAS ALWAYS GOING TO BE UNTAINNABLE …
      the west want to use THEIR TURKISH POODLE to lead the moslem world by example into doing the wests bidding ….
      the ARAB SPRING has shown that the arab people do not want to be the wests lapdog ..
      therefore TURKEY CANNOT LEAD THE MOSLEM WORLD …
      the only way TURKEY can lead the moslem world is to adopt their policies …
      which inevitably will lead to a clash with the west …
      and that seems to have happened several times in last the few months …
      the final straw was in december / when TURKISH warships and planes shelled the line between IREALI and CYPRIOT EEZ …they had obviously gone too far , this time …
      as ISREALI jets flew over occupied NICOSIA AND OCCUPIED NORTH CYPRUS dispite TURKISH WARNINGS NOT TO DARE …
      obviously this was ISREALS signal that it will go to war if neccessary , and its time for the USA to tell its proxy to dissist …
      TURKEY HAS BACKED DOWN … because without AMERICAN support their military is useless against a western ally …they would run out of munitions in days …
      this explains TURKEYS bid to produce its own vast quantaty of weapons , using ISREALI technology garnied in the past …
      well if TURKEY is tired of being an AMERICAN patsy with only NORTH CYPRUS as its reward ..and wants more (IE the eastern med gas and oil)..its going to have to fight ISREAL for it ..
      ALL THEY HAVE ACHIEVED is to SHOW ISREAL that it needs CYPRUS and GREECE for its survival …and into a direct alliance with both CYPRUS and GREECE …a monumental disaster for TURKEYS long term foreign policy objective of expansion into their territory and EEZ …

      all that remains now is to see how far and how quickly ISREAL will have to go … to ensure that this potential TURKISH THREAT is permanetly neutralised especially in view of its percieved comming conflict with IRAN ….
      ONE QUICK WAY is to get the USA to enforce the UN resolutions on cyprus , and remove the TURKISH ARMY , AIRFORCE , AND NAVY from NORTHERN CYPRUS ..at the up-comming CYPRUS conference in the spring … this is an opertunity ISREAL must not miss …OTHERWISE IT WILL HAVE TO DO IT ITSELF 5 YEARS DOWN THE LINE ..
      ISREAL also needs to ensure TURKEY stops its huge arms capability build up …
      which is far beyond its legitimate defence needs ….
      THE WESTERN DEMOCRACY’S should have learned that perticular lesson , with the kaisers germany , and again with nazi germany …
      a lesson which im sure is not lost on ISREAL …

      SO YOU SEE MY DEAR PHOEVOS ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH JEWISH OR GREEK LOBBYS IN WASHINGTON ..

      • http://www.facebook.com/el.grieco Phoebus Sparos

        Well said Tyroneez. Did you study Thoucydides?
        However, I sort of disagree about the ridiculousness of blaming Obama for the policy towards Turkey. By “Obama” pls read “any US administration”. Correctly said, it is the USA interests that determine Foreign policy but who determines these interests? If one could buy the argument of buffer against the Soviet Union in the Cold War era, the current argument about buffer against the Iranian Muslim Fundamentalists is very thin.
        In that respect, supporting the Kurdish movement for self-determination would give the USA the benefits it seeks. A free Kurdistan would be very happy to form a shield against these fundamentalists. At the same time, Kurdish Freedom will be the real catalyst for freedom movements in the whole region, much more vanguard than the current “Arab spring”; the Iranian regime itself will fall.
        For those who want to understand Neo-Ottoman (i.e. contemporary Turkish government) ambitions (I prefer to say aggressiveness) a book by the current Turkish Minister of Foreign Affairs is indispensable. I hope that there is an English translation by now. “Strategic Depth” by Dr. Ahmet Davutoglu. (In Turkish: Stratejik Derinlik). In there you will find revealing statements like
        “Even if there was not a single Muslim Turk there [i.e. Cyprus], Turkey ought to maintain a Cyprus Issue. No country can remain indifferent to such an island which is situated in the heart of her vital space.”

        • Tyroneez

          DEAR PHOEBUS SPAROS
          MAYBE I DIDNT FULLY EXPLAIN WHAT I MEANT TO SAY … OR MAKE SOME OF MY POINTS CLEARLY ENOUGH …
          TURKEY has always had the support of the western powers , and they have always turned a blind eye to its breaking of international laws and conventions …and even treaty’s that it has signed …
          the main concern of the west is to keep RUSSIA OUT OF THE MEDITERRANEAN at all costs ….
          by denying RUSSIA CONTROL OF THE STRAITS AND ANATOLIA ….its not because they particularly like the TURKS and dislike the GREEKS ..

          FOR EXAMPLE when the GREEKS REBELLED IN 1821 , THE OTTOMAN STATE COLLAPSED …for without full GREEK co-operation it could no longer function ….
          as the greek orthodox were in a majority in the balkans and if you add in the armenians , christians were in a majority in anatolia too …
          the muslim ottomans were only majorities in some of the larger towns , and central anatolia , they controlled only the military , the greeks had efective control of the seas from the begining …
          unable to retake the peloponese or the islands and facing a possible defeat in thessaly , macedonia , thrace and even the capital constantinople …the sultan in desperation called in the egyptian french trained armies of mohamed ali … but even these could not defeat the GREEK rebellion ….the GREEKS could not defeat Ibrahims MODERN egyptian army either …the western powers did nothing , hoping the sultan would prevail , before RUSSIA GOT INVOLVED …
          the carnage dragged on for 7 years … BUT FINALLY WITH DIRECT RUSSIAN INTERVENTION ON LAND AND BY SEA .. THE BRITISH AND FRENCH WERE FORCED TO SEND A NAVAL CONTINGENT TO JOIN THE RUSSIANS … in an attempt to influence events …
          RUSSIA WAS FORCED to pull back from constantinople , and the ottoman state was reinstated in the balkans and armenia despite the fact that they had a majority and discontent christian population ..leaving only a tiny truncated independant GREECE in the south !!!!
          SO AS YOU SEE it was only with the direct support of the west that THE UNDEMOCRATIC OTTOMAN STATE lasted 100 years more …
          in fact in 1856 BRITAIN and FRANCE actually went to war THEMSELVES with IMPERIAL RUSSIA , and attacked the crimea , to once again save the ottoman empire and thus keep RUSSIA FROM THE STRAITS …
          SO YOU SEE MY FRIEND ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANTI-COMMUNISM OR THE SOVIETS
          the cold war was just the latest phase of this opposition to RUSSIAN PENETRATION into the med …
          it didnt matter to them that THE OUTDATED AND CORRUPT OTTOMAN SYSTEM was an anacronism in the 19th century …and was existing by opressing its MAJORITY CHRISTIAN (NOT ITS MINORITY CHRISTIAN) populations ..
          the same is true today as in 1922 the western powers QUITE WRONGLY , believe that the MOSLEM TURKS will defend the STRAITS against RUSSIA …. more than the ORTHODOX GREEKS WOULD …
          TURKEY has learned from its mistake in 1914 that its survival depended on playing the friend to the western powers …
          and this it has dilligently done , by supporting the BRITISH in cyprus in the 1950s …and has also supported ISREAL for over 50 years now ….
          and in return and in place of the ANGLO/FRENCH …
          the USA and ISREAL have assisted TURKEY to arm itself to the point where it now thinks it can control half the mediterranean …
          all the while turning a blind eye to its violations in CYPRUS and the AEGEAN …and KURDISTAN …
          hence my point that BLAMING PRESIDENT OBAMA DIRECTLY is not correct … in fact he seems to be LESS inclined to turn a blind eye to both TURKISH AND ISREALI violations in the region …something that all previous administrations have done with impunity …

          WHAT HAPPENS NEXT IS ANYBODYS GUESS / BUT I FOR ONE SINCERELY HOPE THAT THE ISREALIS HAVE FINALLY UNDERSTOOD THAT THEIR LONG TERM SECURITY AND SURVIVAL IN THE REGION , DEPENDS ON AN INDEPENDANT AND ALLIED CYPRUS AND GREECE ….AND NOT AN AGGRESSIVE EXPANSIONIST NEO-OTTOMAN TURKEY …

          • Tyroneez

            JUST ONE MORE POINT
            it now falls to ISREAL to persuade the USA that support for an autonamous or even an independant ANATOLIAN KURDISTAN …
            on the lines of IRAQI KURDISTAN …
            will not only be a just cause , but will contain an expansionist TURKEY … and will also facilitate the breakup of IRAN into its discontent and disparate parts …
            as these two states are nothing more than rump empires , still undemocratically dominated by one ethnic minority group , to the detriment of all the other nationalities that have lived there for millenia

      • Stelio_

        I agree with your response. However, I think you underestimate the influence of the Jewish lobby within the U.S.

        They direct both national and foreign policy as a whole.

        • Eric R.

          Please see my post on the issue below. You Europeans have to get over the notion that 6 million Jews are so powerful that they lead around 310 million dumb Americans by the nose.

          It’s insulting and wrong.

          • Phoevos

            Eric: True. But the Jewish lobby is a highly disciplined team. Just like the Armenian lobby whose orgnanization and effectiveness (for the numbers involved) is astounding.

          • Stelio_

            I think the Armenians have a little help from their Greek friends in their efforts. After all, there is a some shared historical sentiments with regards to Turkish atrocities.

          • Phoevos

            Stelio – I am sorry. I don’t know how close you are to these issues, but here is something for you.

            The Armenians have an organization called ANCA (Google it) which is a marvel of disciplined and organized effort.

            Yesterday, as the Armenian genocide bill was voted in the French Senate, ANCA’s Facebook webpage provided:

            1. Live feed of the whole debate lasting 6+ hours (of course you needed to speak French to understand).

            2. A minute-by-minute summary of happenings on the Senate floor (for example, so and so spoke from this party and this is what he/she said).

            3. Every time the issues came to a vote, the site clarified the issues (for example, a negative vote means a win and so on).

            4. There were people connected to this site from all ends of the earth. From Yerevan, Armenia, France, Spain, Europe, Greece, Cyprus, USA, Canada, Australia…you name it). There were even people connected with ipods and twitter and such. A truly organized, massive, awesome display of Armenian solidarity.

            When were the last time that the Greeks abroad have been able to do such? What organization in the US/UK/Australasia keeps streaming with positive developments on Greek issues? Even if you go to ANCA today, news from around the world keeps streaming on all sorts of Armenian issues of interest.

            Where is our famous “filotimo colony” overseas?

            Is it so difficult to watch and learn? Is it so difficult to ask our Jewish and Armenian friends to show us how to organize?

          • Stelio_

            Yes, I am familiar with all of this. I’ll tell you something you don’t know…

            Being of Cypriot descent and attending various community events I can recall various individuals making public statements against Turkish Occupation and citing the atrocities committed to various ethnic groups including Armenians…

            It always helps to have other groups confirming events on an national/international forum, don’t you think?

          • Phoevos

            Yes, you are right.

            Please don’t drag me into a religious conversation.

            In the name of Zeus, that is :-)

          • Stelio_

            :) I won’t. I don’t believe that I have.

          • Stelio_

            I’m sorry if I am insulting you in any way Eric. Not my intention.

            Perhaps it is my opinion that is not widely shared, I don’t know…I do stand to correct myself as I feel I have worded it wrong. I feel that they ‘influence’ and not “direct” as I stated above. More foreign than national as well.

            With regards to national, I look at many of the positions of control from media, banking, security, etc…anyway, you can see how the somebody like, Ron Paul, who is challenging the establishment, scarring them to the point where they slander him, give him minimal exposure and debate time, because he and his following are a real threat to the status quo.

            (example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_Lw-4Znp9AY)

            With regards to lobbyists, they lobby hard, loud, and in cohesion. It’s nothing to shake a stick at and they are the most powerful lobby in the USA, unless you can point otherwise. I look at it as not a matter of who lobby’s more but who successfully achieves in their objectives. They simply take care of their business.

            Some of you (Phoebos) may feel that I am spewing some sort of anti semitism, with regards to some of my comments in other posts, don’t think it’s a Jewish issue at all but a Zionist issue masquerading as Judaism. A website put together by a Rabbi in NY, differentiating between the two:
            http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

            I hope this elaborates a little further on what my thoughts are on the issue. Again, in no way an attack or to offend.

  • Nobletool

    Hi Phoevos

    ” But Jewish people stand shoulder to shoulder. Greeks are individualists and could hardly ban together. That’s the big difference”

    I have the same opimion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/el.grieco Phoebus Sparos

    I solemly declare that I have no relation whatsoever with the one who signs as “Phoevos”

    • Phoevos

      What ?